[hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?

So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is indeed
true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
spaces:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)

(Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums /hlds-valve-linux-newsletter/49218-hlds_linux-sv_lan-class-c-space.html

For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class A
range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.

Thoughts?

Morgan
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"sv_lan" = "0"
- Server is a lan server ( no heartbeat, no authentication, no
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
non-class C addresses )

It's not news to anyone that valve doesn't follow super strict coding
or protocol practices, really.

It's possible that they allow all three ranges and were incorrect in
labeling the filtering that they do as 'class C'.
A plugin to circumvent this limit probably wouldn't be hard to make,
assuming you kept it private and only used it with legitimate copies
of the game, of course.
There's also VPNs, hamachi, etc..

- Neph

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Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
sv_lan 1.

-----Original Message-----
From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Humes
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?

So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is indeed
true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
spaces:

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)

(Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218

For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class A
range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.

Thoughts?

Morgan
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It doesn't. If the server is operating with sv_lan 1, if you try to join via
Hamachi, the server tells you that you need to have a class C address.

I have to retest, but I believe it rejects anything other than a class C
address.

I was that person Morgan was talking about, but basically I believe the
server is visible on any class private network, but I don't think you can
join it.

Don't have time to retest, but if anyone else has knowledge about it,
advise. (Might test it tomorrow)

Jordan Toor

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Tony Paloma <drunkenf00l (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
> sv_lan 1.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan
> Humes
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
> To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
> Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?
>
> So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
> only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is
> indeed
> true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
> Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
> spaces:
>
> 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
> 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
> 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>
> (Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
>
> For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class
> A
> range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Morgan
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> please visit:
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Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
>
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I used to help run a 200-300 bi anual lan party in the wash dc area for
a few years, and back then, it was limited to the 192.168 class c
addresses. It *was* a pain, however we simply just combined two class
Cs to get around the IP restriction issues. We considered putting up
a small homemade router between the classes to minimize broadcasts, but
didn't want to segment the lan, and therefor players from eachother.

It is kinda dumb, however it was easily fixed. There were issues with
the lan client server browser finding all servers reliably, however it
wasn't too bad. We always had enough game servers. This might have
been Valve's rationale to only allow class c. even two class Cs caused
issues with broadcasts, let alone a class B. Doesn't fully make
networking sense, but there you have it.

Kev

Jordan Toor wrote:
> It doesn't. If the server is operating with sv_lan 1, if you try to join via
> Hamachi, the server tells you that you need to have a class C address.
>
> I have to retest, but I believe it rejects anything other than a class C
> address.
>
> I was that person Morgan was talking about, but basically I believe the
> server is visible on any class private network, but I don't think you can
> join it.
>
> Don't have time to retest, but if anyone else has knowledge about it,
> advise. (Might test it tomorrow)
>
> Jordan Toor
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Tony Paloma <drunkenf00l (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>> Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
>> sv_lan 1.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan
>> Humes
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
>> To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>> Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?
>>
>> So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
>> only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is
>> indeed
>> true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
>> Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
>> spaces:
>>
>> 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
>> 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
>> 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>>
>> (Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
>>
>> For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class
>> A
>> range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
>> Morgan
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>

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I tried it with vpn 172.168.13.2 and 172.168.14.4, it didn't work.

Kveri

Jordan Toor wrote:
> It doesn't. If the server is operating with sv_lan 1, if you try to join via
> Hamachi, the server tells you that you need to have a class C address.
>
> I have to retest, but I believe it rejects anything other than a class C
> address.
>
> I was that person Morgan was talking about, but basically I believe the
> server is visible on any class private network, but I don't think you can
> join it.
>
> Don't have time to retest, but if anyone else has knowledge about it,
> advise. (Might test it tomorrow)
>
> Jordan Toor
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Tony Paloma <drunkenf00l (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
>> sv_lan 1.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan
>> Humes
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
>> To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>> Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?
>>
>> So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
>> only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is
>> indeed
>> true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
>> Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
>> spaces:
>>
>> 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
>> 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
>> 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>>
>> (Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
>>
>> For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class
>> A
>> range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Morgan
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>
>

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Would it be possible to modify the srcds so that sv_lan 1 only accepts
clients from within its subnet rather than just class C?

Kevin J. Anderson wrote:
> I used to help run a 200-300 bi anual lan party in the wash dc area for
> a few years, and back then, it was limited to the 192.168 class c
> addresses. It *was* a pain, however we simply just combined two class
> Cs to get around the IP restriction issues. We considered putting up
> a small homemade router between the classes to minimize broadcasts, but
> didn't want to segment the lan, and therefor players from eachother.
>
> It is kinda dumb, however it was easily fixed. There were issues with
> the lan client server browser finding all servers reliably, however it
> wasn't too bad. We always had enough game servers. This might have
> been Valve's rationale to only allow class c. even two class Cs caused
> issues with broadcasts, let alone a class B. Doesn't fully make
> networking sense, but there you have it.
>
> Kev
>
> Jordan Toor wrote:
>
>> It doesn't. If the server is operating with sv_lan 1, if you try to join via
>> Hamachi, the server tells you that you need to have a class C address.
>>
>> I have to retest, but I believe it rejects anything other than a class C
>> address.
>>
>> I was that person Morgan was talking about, but basically I believe the
>> server is visible on any class private network, but I don't think you can
>> join it.
>>
>> Don't have time to retest, but if anyone else has knowledge about it,
>> advise. (Might test it tomorrow)
>>
>> Jordan Toor
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Tony Paloma <drunkenf00l (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
>>> sv_lan 1.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan
>>> Humes
>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
>>> To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
>>> Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?
>>>
>>> So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
>>> only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is
>>> indeed
>>> true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
>>> Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
>>> spaces:
>>>
>>> 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
>>> 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
>>> 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>>>
>>> (Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
>>>
>>> For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class
>>> A
>>> range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Morgan
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma...nfo/hlds_linux
>>
>>
>
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Hi,

I had nothing better to do this morning, so I decided to test. HLDS's
behavior differs slightly from SRCDS's behavior. It appears to me that
"Class C" is used merely for lack of a more appropriate term coming to
the developer's mind - network classes do not exist any more, and even
though most people use "class c" to refer to a /24, that is not the
behavior the servers exhibit. My network configuration on a FreeBSD 7
machine:

inet 192.168.1.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255
inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 broadcast 10.255.255.255
inet 5.16.90.1 netmask 0xffff0000 broadcast 5.16.255.255

I tested by changing the IP addresses of several windows machines and
connecting to hlds with half-life and srcds with counter strike source.
Neither server has their IP set, they bind to all available interfaces.

On HLDS, it appears to only allow RFC1918 addresses to connect with
sv_lan 1 (cruft snipped from logs, server is bound to all addresses
shown above):

version : 48/1.1.2.1/Stdio 4383 insecure (70)
tcp/ip : 192.168.1.2:27015
# 1 "moo`fwaggle" 1 STEAM_ID_LAN 0 00:08 11 48 10.0.3.3:27005

Connecting from 5.16.89.3 returns the error message "Server restricted
to Class C" on Half-life. Note that below, this same scenario works on
Source DS.

It appears to me as though srcds will check the IP and netmask of all
interfaces it binds to, and allow any client that falls in the same
network as these to connect:

Network: IP 10.0.0.1, mode MP, dedicated Yes, ports 27015 SV / 27005 CL
"sv_lan" = "1" ( def. "0" )
- Server is a lan server ( no heartbeat, no authentication, no
non-class C addresses )
Client "moo`fwaggle" connected (10.0.0.2:27005).
Client "moo`fwaggle" connected (10.0.1.2:27005).
Client "moo`sabriena" connected (192.168.1.3:27005).
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
Client "moo`fwaggle" connected (5.16.90.3:27005).

What's interesting to note is that I spliced all these log entries
together for brevity - but when the connection occurred from
192.168.1.3, that machine was attempting to connect 10.0.0.1, though it
was not in the 10.* subnet - the FreeBSD machine was performing NAT and
translated the connection, but because the server has a host in the
192.168.1.* network it appears to have allowed the connection, despite
the fact the connection was from a different network (192.168.1.3 ->
10.0.0.1). I hope that makes sense.

The conclusion that I draw is that only Source will work over Hamachi
with sv_lan 1, Goldsource doesn't appear to (limiting you to only
Read more on: : i3D.net Game Forums http://forum.i3d.net/showthread.php?t=49218
RFC1918 addresses from my observation).

Of course, windows servers could behave entirely different.

Hope that helps some.

--
fwaggle

Tony Paloma wrote:
> Hamachi operates on 5.0.0.0/8 and I'm pretty sure it works just fine on
> sv_lan 1.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Humes
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:01 PM
> To: hlds_linux (AT) list (DOT) valvesoftware.com
> Subject: [hlds_linux] sv_lan - Class C Space?
>
> So I was having a conversation with a friend on how hlds claims that sv_lan
> only works with Class C Address space. This is an epic fail if it is indeed
> true. RFC 1918 does define private address space in Classes A, B, and C.
> Thus a LAN Party could easily use any of the following private address
> spaces:
>
> 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
> 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
> 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>
> (Note, taken from RFC 1918 section 3 - http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918)
>
> For those who are not well versed in networking, the above 10/8 is a Class A
> range, 172.16/12 is Class B, and 192.168/16 is Class C.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Morgan

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